General comments on the Jones affair

(As of September 11, comments continue to be posted in this entry.)

Since there are so many entries today on Pastor Jones, In this entry I am posting comments that do not definitely fit into one existing entry but could fit into several, or that touch on the issue as a whole.

Alan M. writes:

My head is reeling with the intensity of the attacks on Pastor Jones today as you point out.

When our country was much more of an economic superpower, we could afford the insanity of liberalism on the margin/at the fringe. We were rich enough to absorb the deleterious cultural and economic effects of liberalism’s race baiting, equal opportunity redistribution, etc., because it only affected a small part of our overall economy. However, liberalism insinuated itself into our housing market and associated legal prescriptions to the point that it resulted in a core of insanity at the very foundations of our financial system. Most financial assets in the country were either directly or indirectly put at risk because of these crazy risks taken in the name of “doing good.” That all unraveled in a very short time and we will be paying for allowing liberalism into our core for a long time.

Today has proven to me that culturally, liberal insanity about Islam has so deeply ingrained itself here that we as a nation are definitely going to suffer some calamity in the near future as a result. I just happened to spend a lot of time in the car today and listened to parts of many of the conservative talk show circuit. Not one that I listened to did anything but stick up for Islam as a religion like any other (the late night shows—Mark Levin and Michael Savage—may be exceptions). The ignorance is stunning. I had to respond to a friend today telling that if he didn’t allow Muslims in the U.S. to be ruled by Sharia law, he was not following the Constitution by allowing them freely to practice their religion—I only wish the blank stare he gave back was as a result of realizing his argument was flawed rather then not having a clue what I was talking about.

I can only hope that this will be a low point and it will awaken those who are not ignorant to talk more. The unanimity of the voices heard today makes me think otherwise and this will cost us dearly.

Alan M. continues:

One more point—one broadcaster who was standing in for Beck, I think, this morning had the audacity to recite CAIR talking points—e.g. “I’ll be most American’s don’t know that Jesus is spoken about lovingly 22 times in the Koran” (I’m paraphrasing).

Again, liberal elitist ignorance attacking those who actually understand.

I have never in my years of listening to these shows turned them off. Today I had to turn off every show at some point.

Ingemar P. writes:

On an exchange in Facebook (I know, I know—forgive me), a friend seemed elated at the cancellation of the Koran burning:


Hallelujah, reason has prevaled. With a resounding unified (Republicans, Democrats, Muslims, Christians, et cetera) front against this (truly a sign of God), this abhorrent act has been cancelled.

A friend of his replied:

There’s hope for humanity yet :)

My reply?

Me: Not if humanity is still shackled by the threat of Muslim violence.

As a further reputation of my “friend’s” attitude, this is not a victory of reason. It is victory of profound unreason. Pastor Jones wanted to protest Islam provocatively, but not violently. Muslims threatened to riot and kill in retaliation. And what does the WHOLE WORLD do? Instead of condemning the irrational violence of the Muslims, they condemn Pastor Jones. They do not think for one minute to question why the followers of this monstrous heresy would react this way. No. Muslims killing because infidels have wounded their fragile egos is perfectly normal, acceptable, when it is not OK for any other group to do the same.

This whole world is shackled in spiritual slavery to Satan and his firstborn son, Mohammed.

A small part of me is hoping that Jones is bluffing. If he is, let me leave him with Matthew 10:28: “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

P.S. I noticed in my e-mail’s spell check “muslim” is flagged when spelled lower case but “christian” is not. Even my damn software is dhimmi.

Sophia A. writes:

It seems that Diana West and I are on the same wavelength w/respect to “performance art.”

I am finding it hard to believe that we are living in a free society.

Truly, we have reached our “Piss Muhammad” moment. Not a moment too soon! Let us see how many of the brave defenders of free speech we have.

Actually, your suggestion about submerging the Koran in a jar of urine was terrific. I mean, it’s just perfect. If they ever do build that mosk (why mosque?) near Ground Zero, perhaps some folks can keep a vigil….

Sophia A. writes:

Whatever you make think of Jones’s decision, this nobody has managed to expose our entire leadership class as gutless wonders. Yeah, we already knew that, but still, it’s fun to see.

I mean, Interpol warning 188 member countries of violence, because the pastor of a 50 family church? You can’t make this stuff up.

Robert B. writes:

Richard The Lion Heart is spinning in his eternal grave.

What so many millions of Westerners gave their lives for over a period of one-thousand years of near continuous war is now being surrendered without a shot having been fired.

Thanks, Left

Sophia A. continues:

An early interview with Jones. Interesting stuff. Note the date. I hadn’t realized this was kicking around since July.

Scott in PA writes:

At first I thought Pastor Jones’s act was an unnecessary provocation of our enemy. But that begged the question: is there such a thing as a necessary provocation? I think the Koran burning provided the case of a necessary provocation: Islam, the religion with the eternal chip on its shoulder, must necessarily be disabused of any notion that its belief system is immune from criticism, or even the harshest denunciation. In Western culture, every other belief system is subject to admiration or contempt, but Islam is little by little carving out its own special niche. So it’s not enough to say, “We can do X to Islam, but we won’t because we’re better people.” How will we ever know that we won’t do X because we’re better people—or because we fear for our lives? We won’t know unless the act is done. The act is necessary.

Robert B. writes:

Even the Internet Way Back Archive machine has wiped the Dove World Outreach Center website clean.

N. writes:

I don’t know if this should be publicized or not.

Type “doveworld” into a Google search, and you will find a number of pages from the now defunct site, some are cached in Google’s cache. Here is “Ten reasons to burn a Koran” page.

Dean E. writes:

Even though I knew he was going to have to cave, still, the actual cave, and the circumstances surrounding it, have left me feeling down. Our own leaders, in a depressing show of unanimity, have issued a fatwa forbidding U.S. citizens from desecrating the Koran. On pain of total ruin. And with hardly a peep of protest from, and even the enthusiastic collusion of, those same citizens. It’s rotten.

Shrewsbury writes:

Shrewsbury was wondering, at this point in world history, what is the greatest amount of insult to Islam that would fail to provoke an international crisis? What would happen if someone announced that he would burn one page in the Koran? Or would singe one corner of a page? Or was using a Koran as a doorstop? Surely this would prove a fruitful topic for investigation. Can we still write the name of the Prophet Mohammed without the “pbuh”? Is that okay? Or will that result in more Americans being killed?

Oh, and by the way, does it not seem just a little bit weird to our elites that we are now to be held hostage by the fanatical passions of mobs of primitives on the other side of the world, and must carefully circumscribe our actions in accordance with their zealous stipulations? Is this their globalism, their New World Order?

LA replies:

Let’s look at it this way. Suppose that Shrewsbury sent out a public relations announcement to newspapers and TV stations that he was planning to invite 20 friends to his house for a backyard barbecue, at which party there would also be a burning of a copy of the Koran to express the group’s condemnation of that religion. Would it result in the Pope, the U.S. President, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the entire mainstream media, the government of Shrewsbury’s town, Shrewsbury’s internet service provider, and Shrewsbury’s bank all condemning him and acting in a way to ruin his life unless he gave up the plan?

Yet how is Shrewsbury’s action substantively different from Terry Jones’s? A private burning of a privately owned copy of a book on private property.

Stogie of the Saberpoint blog writes:

The mass denunciations of Pastor Jones by the right blogosphere was really eye-opening. Many of them, maybe most of them, are as chicken-hearted as the Left. I am disillusioned and disgusted.

Mark Jaws writes:

When I was a kid back in lower Manhattan during the 1960s I usually made a pitcher of lemonade for me and my boys after several games of stickball or baseball. Not only did it taste pretty good, but it was a lot cheaper than all of us having to spend 25 cents for a coke. It started me on a lifelong habit of making proverbial lemonade whenever life tossed me a personal or professional lemon. So, no point in stopping now with this political lemon of the Koran burning cave-in. Therefore, you think it is possible that this whole affair will give the godless and anti-Christian Left pause, so that they will no longer encourage and condone the desecration of Christian icons? Given the extent of publicity generated over this, it would be pretty hard to yell “freedom of speech” when Christ is portrayed blasphemously.

LA replies:

This is a lemonade in the existence of which I find it hard to believe. :-)

September 10

John Dempsey writes:

While reading one of your posts on the Terry Jones spectacle I thought about the so-called reasoning behind the outcry and demand that he cancel his Koran burning. Even David Petraeus concluded that the act of burning the Koran would further inflame the Moslems thus putting our troops and even American civilians in terrible danger of retribution for the act. Now if this is true, then what is to be said for the primary reason that Osama bin Laden gave for the 9-11 attacks? Is it not true that his primary complaint was the presence of American military in Moslem lands? So by this reasoning, in order to placate the Moslems, shouldn’t we withdraw every one of our troops from both Iraq and Afghanistan?

LA replies:

Absolutely. I wish someone would ask Petreaus this question. And remember, the initial complaint of bin Laden was not about 150,000 (in Iraq) or 94,000 (in Afghanistan) combat troops fighting against and killing Muslims; it was about a few thousand U.S. troops stationed peacefully in Saudi Arabia to protect the Wahhabi Sunni Saudi government from invasion by the irreligious Baathist Saddam Hussein. The mere physical presence of a small infidel military contingent in a Muslim country justified the destruction of the WTC and the deaths of up to tens of thousands of civilians, if the towers had collapsed immediately and fallen sideways. The same for the WTC attack of 2003, which was intended to make the North Tower fall sideways into the South Tower.

Steve W. writes:

It’s both infuriating and disheartening to see how deeply afraid of the Muslim world our entire political establishment (including military leaders!) has become. But as cowardly as they are in the face of the Muslim threat, they are bullies when it comes to silencing the few Americans who are ready to fight the Islamic menace. I’m not surprised that Pastor Jones was intimidated into dropping his protest.

What I would like to see, and maybe it will happen due to Jones’s example, is for some brave American with a large plot of land (in Texas?) to hold a protest event on his own property, to which he invites lots of other brave Americans, with guns, to enjoy barbecue, patriotic music, and a big ol’ Koran bonfire. Now that would be inspirational!

The original Sons of Liberty were a rough lot, something that even conservatives who venerate the Revolutionary War period overlook. We need men like them again.

LA writes:

Terry Jones and Rush Limbaugh were high school classmates.

Lydia McGrew writes:

The FBI visited Terry Jones shortly before he caved

Doug H. writes:

Over the last few days, my disgust with the mainstream conservatives has plummeted to new lows. Each day, I see things that I never thought could happen here.

I may be only one, but I will not be converted to dhimmi status.

One of my employees told me that I should watch what I say, because it is rumored a Muslim is working in the office next to us. Now, being a military contractor working on a military base and retired military, I know enough to know I should keep my mouth shut. There are some things in life just not worth losing at any cost. I will not lose my integrity. The job be damned. I will never live my life worried that I might say something to offend someone of a faith which is so barbaric that it should be outlawed.

Mercedes D. writes:

The division between traditionalist conservatives and liberal pseudo-conservatives who will not defend Western civilization becomes more clear every day. The battle lines are drawn.

As King Theoden says in The Two Towers, “Let them come.”

Lois W. writes:

Summary of a Christian broadcaster’s program yesterday:

Topic One: “Why it is a bad idea that a Pastor and his church are holding a Koran burning. This act could be used to justify laws against Christians and our freedom of religious speech.”

Ugh. This kind of narrow self-protectionism will be the downfall of our country. What happened to the Christian mandate to contend for the faith and be watchers on the wall?

LA replies:

You’re right, that is an amazingly pathetic statement. What do these people think happens to Christians in Muslim countries?

Paul Henri writes:

Just thought you would like to know Donald Trump just called in to Hannity tonight to say he was offering $4-$6 mil?? for the mosque site. Trump thinks this is all an attempt to make money. For some reason, he is afraid someone will offer a huge sum and thinks the “defective” (or words to that effect) governor of New York will do that. If he does not want the mosque, why does he not want someone to offer a huge sum? Anyway, you might want to catch Hannity at a later time tonight or check his Website tomorrow.

Unfortunate that the media has given any attention to Pastor Jones. He is right but at exactly the wrong time, just when public opinion was going against Muslims hard. Politics is an extremely complex game.

Peter G. writes:

A quirky backwoods pastor has done the revolutionary act Orwell stated by providing the definitive emblem to ordinary Americans on the truth of Islam. His orchestration of this drama, seems instinctual rather than intellectual. An innate exceptionalism of moral clarity Americans alone seem to possess anymore would with a simple emblem give your people a canonical demonstration of the evil they face in Islam and the amoral ruling class who seem willing to expose America to anything. The ruling class is making it an overt demand that Americans surrender their constitutional rights in a craven act of appeasement. Getting close to that personal pain moment you’ve been talking about Larry. Who isn’t looking at this with any measure of intelligent thought and doesn’t have a very uncomfortable feeling that the Constitution is being made subservient to sharia?

It won’t stop here, a very vulnerable pressure point in the whole structure of Liberal ideology has been exposed. Who will push there next?

Stephen Hopewell writes:

Apparently it is a requirement, when writing for National Review, to distance oneself from Jones by referring to him at least once with an epithet indicating contempt for his “stupidity,” before defending free speech or condemning Islamic violence in some convoluted way. It may be that Jones is not a stellar intellect, but don’t they protest too much?

“obviously a nincompoop” “a jackass”—Andrew McCarthy

“Rev. Jones’ planned stunt was idiotic and offensive”—Rich Lowry

“this pathetic figure”—Victor Davis Hanson

” ‘pastor’ Terry Jones”—Daniel Foster

“Pastor Dimwit”—Shannon Coffin

LA replies:

It’s amazing how they all feel the compulsion to echo each other on that point, isn’t it? They’re all keeping up with the anti-Joneses.

I refer readers to my entry on Thursday morning, “Why Jones is burning a Koran,” in which, far from condescending to him, I say that his explanation of his planned action is intelligent and persuasive. In addition to being almost the only bylined writer to defend Jones’s planned Koran burning, I’m also almost the only writer to praise him for his intelligence and cogency.

By the way, I have not seen him on TV. Maybe he comes across unimpressively. But his article, “Ten reasons to burn a Koran,” was impressively argued.

Hannon writes:

I see what you mean about men’s minds being on fire, or fired up, over this subject. I think it has had a searing effect on many other pre-existing concerns we all share. As others have pointed out, the main benefit has been the revelatory exposure of dominant liberalism for all its cowardice and ignorance.

Mark A. writes:

General Patraeus’s warning that the Koran burning will incite violence in the Middle East might be the most laughable comment I’ve heard in politics since “I didn’t inhale.” These are countries where the sight of a woman’s face incites violence.

September 11

Rick Darby writes:

I wasn’t going to blog or comment on this Koran burning business because it seemed like everything I would say has been said by you and others, and I always try to come up with something other than “me too!”

But after reading the thread, I was left with a simple but basic thought that may not have been expressed in the same way:

The one irreducible fact about the proposed Koran burning is that it was—would have been—a symbolic ACTION.

And symbolic ACTION must be the next step. Millions and millions of words have been written and spoken about the Muslim World Jihad, and they helped prepare the ground for resistance. But repeating those words ad nauseam has reached a point of diminishing returns.

From now on, it’s got to be action. Not violent action (except in extreme cases of self-defense). Not persecuting individual Muslims. But symbolic acts that show up (a) the fanaticism and threats of violence by the jihadists and (b) the responses, craven or (perhaps someday) otherwise, of our Liberal Establishment.

Michael S. writes:

First, a not-so-serious question: If you burn a copy of the Koran to a CD, will Moslems be offended?

Second, and more seriously, how long before Moslems regard any commemoration whatsoever of the events of September 11, 2001, and any mourning therefor, as offensive?

Posted by Lawrence Auster at September 09, 2010 09:00 PM | Send

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