Even if conservatives succeeded in seceding from Leftist America, which conservatism would the new America then follow?
In an earlier entry today, I wrote about how after the Guelphs finally emerged triumphant over the Ghibellines in the centuries-long civil war in medieval Florence, the Guelphs then split into Black Guelphs and White Guelphs, and the civil war continued under a new name. In reply, Dean Ericson wrote:
If ever the leftist party (we’ll call them the Ghibellines) were thoroughly defeated, then we remaining Guelphs would divide into warring Black and White parties too: traditionalists vs. right liberals/libertarians.I replied:
Right. That’s a huge problem that hasn’t been confronted yet, even in discussions at VFR. We’ve talked about conservatives seceding and forming a conservative, “red state” country. But among the people who call themselves conservatives, all of whom oppose the statist system the left seeks to impose on us, there are two distinct groups, social conservatives and social liberals, and these two factions would have very different notions of what that new country should be like. And suppose the social conservatives won out over the social liberals. Among the victorious social conservatives, some would be racial conservatives, wanting the new country to remain white majority and Anglo-European, while others would be Glenn Beck-style racial liberals, eager to turn the new country into a hand-holding, Kumbaya-singing, Martin Luther King-worshipping, multiracial mirror of mankind.
Mark Jaws writes:
First and foremost, we all agree the overwhelming majority of blacks and dark-skinned Hispanics could not survive without government largesse—welfare and affirmative action. So I can almost guarantee you that in our break away Guelphist republic, the national government would be constrained to performing the most minimal of functions—and “spreading the wealth around” would not be part of its job description.Jim C. writes:
White leftists would be good neighbors as long as there are no minorities in the population. Liberals would be neutralized as most of their destructive programs are aimed at helping low IQ Americans. Race is the most important variable for a thriving society, not ideology.Mark Jaws writes:
As one of VFR’s most ardent proponents (or dreamers) of the Red State Republic (RSR), I want to be clear that I would never advocate ethnic cleansing of any type imposed on anyone. I am a realist, though, and given the demographic situation in America with blacks and nonwhite Hispanics overwhelmingly more likely than whites and Asians to be on welfare and food stamps and reliant on affirmative action for their very survival and well being, the odds of many of them choosing to live in the absolutely race-neutral/no welfare RSR once the split were to occur, would be as likely as finding a Hindu in 1949 Pakistan. The relatively few black and nonwhite Hispanic conservatives who would chose to stay in the RSR and live under our constitution (in which diversity would not be a “compelling state interest” and social engineering prohibited) would certainly be welcome, but not catered to. Therein lies the difference with the Beckistas, and the prescription for our survival.John McNeil writes:
The prospect of Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin being the faces of a “radical conservative movement” is why I still prefer calling myself an ethnonationalist, even though I agree with your criticism of the term that it has too much of a biological context, and doesn’t hint at understanding the big picture, unlike the term traditionalist, which encompasses a moral, social, and biological order. However, ethnonationalist is a buzzword that will keep the Glenn Beck types far, far away: for it flat out rejects propositional nationhood which is one of the central tenets of conservative orthodoxy.January 31
James P. writes:
The discussion of factional politics in the hypothetical secessionist Red State America brings to mind the recipe for jugged hare — “First, catch your hare.” Let’s not have a big fight about the politics of our new country until we actually have a new country!
Posted by Lawrence Auster at January 30, 2011 06:58 PM | Send