The liberal rot has even infected the Orthodox Church—here is an Orthodox priest who is pro-GZ mosque
It seems that what is left of the Christian world has gone entirely dhimmi. An Orthodox priest, Ernesto Obregon, has criticized all opposition to the Ground Zero mosque. A person brought up the historical process of destroying buildings and replacing them with Muslim buildings in their stead. Father Ernesto’s reply:
After reading the article you sent, I found myself thinking that I should write an article about the Christian habit of taking over sacred places and building cathedrals on them. After all, once Christianity became legal, temples were turned into churches. Even in areas outside the Empire, such as Ireland, once Christianity came in, the sacred trees were cut down and churches were built in their place. In Mexico, the cathedral in the Distrito Federal is built right on a temple. In Lima, Peru, one can go to the basement of one of the churches and see the archeological excavation of the underlying pagan temple.
My reply to him and the rest of the exchange can be found here.
Therefore, using the same exact logic as the article you sent out, Christian missionaries in any country should be forbidden to build cathedrals, since cathedrals are obviously a sign of the coming conquest and destruction of the already existing pagan places of worship. You can argue all you like about how Christianity no longer does that, but it is obvious by looking at history that you would be lying. In passing, Orthodox people should always be forbidden from building churches, since it is obvious that wherever Orthodoxy takes root (as in the Slavic countries) pogroms against Jews shortly follow. Therefore, that is even more of an argument against allowing those Orthodox to rebuild the church that was destroyed on 9/11 near ground zero.
The lack of logic and religious bias found in many of the anti-mosque arguments is sickening. However, I do stand with the Constitution, which gives freedom of worship which may not be taken away by the State nor stopped by even a majority. But, I also stand against illogical arguments that seek to justify bias based on cherry-picking history.
I’m shocked. I don’t know that much about the Orthodox church, but I thought that by and large it had avoided the liberalism of the Catholic Church, and I certainly never heard of an Orthodox priest mouthing pure liberal garbage as this one does.
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Brandon F. writes:
This is something I know first hand. After having a philosophical awakening several years ago I wanted to experience the most traditional and conservative of Christian traditions and joined the Orthodox Church. I found out that the Church is riddled with liberal thought. The Greek Church is especially egregious in this regardm, as they have been known to give recognition awards to the likes of Olympia Snowe, a staunch abortion supporter.
A lot of younger people find the Orthodox Church appealing because of the aesthetics and “otherness” the church offers. But when they join the Church, along with them comes the liberalism they have been indoctrinated with. During my catechism one of the young college age catechumens actually came to class wearing a jacket with a large Soviet symbol on the back. I reminded him of all the Orthodox that suffered under that symbol.
My own priest at the time even refused my request that he condemn abortion, at a service that coincided with the anniversary of Roe v. Wade. He could only muster the courage to say that we should honor the “choice” young women make to have their children.
Orthodox tradition is full of stories of the killing, torture, rape, and enslavement of Orthodox Christians by Moslems over the centuries. I suppose PC has robbed some of that memory.
Ingemar P. writes:
You can find as much differences in political opinion in the Orthodox Church as the Catholic Church.
Also, the same Orthodox Church that has bright lights such as Olympia Snowe also has some staunch conservatives like … well, the entire Russian hierarchy. But notable is Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev). If you care to read this rather long link, Met. Hilarion is addressing the Anglicans and basically telling them off for their extreme liberalism with regards to Scripture and discipline.
Many come into the Orthodox Church after abandoning mainline Protestant denominations (as did Fr. Ernesto, a former Anglican). However, just because the Orthodox are staunchly conservative when it comes to theology, praxis and liturgics doesn’t mean that their politics are conservative (or pseudo-conservative like FOX).
There also seems to be a running fear among Orthodox, regardless of political affiliation, that our foreign policy will harm Christians in the Muslim world. This has led to many being anti-Zionist. (This could also be due to many Arabs being Orthodox Christians).
And among Orthodox in America, the Greeks tended to be the most liberal.
Jack from Long Island writes:
Doesn’t sound like an Orthodox priest to me.
We need background.
The comments on the Orthodox Church surrendering to Muslims are not quite fair. Bill Clinton bombed them so that an Albanian Muslim terrorist state could destroy Christian churches in Kosovo … the cradle of Serbia.. Can’t we keep our jets and carriers and home?
Nora Brinker (The Editrix) writes from Germany:
Jack from Long Island wrote:
A Google search a day keeps uninformed comments away. This took me about ten seconds (if that):
Doesn’t sound like an Orthodox priest to me.
We need background.
Step one: Copy and paste “Ernesto Obregon” into the Google search window. Result.
Step two: Top hit:
http://www.orthocuban.com. Click on it.
Step three: Click on “About Me” and hey presto.
Step four: Read.
Jack from Long Island writes:
Thank you for printing those snide remarks from the German “Editrix.” Of course I can Google anything, but I value your perspective on the follies of the West. [LA replies: There’s something to your complaint. I generally edit comments to keep commenters from sniping at each other. However, one must say in fairness that your comment was a bit snide itself, with its assumption that a person with a Spanish last name couldn’t possibly be an Orthodox priest, so I don’t think you can complain of being treated unfairly by my posting of Nora’s riposte to you. And by the way, I did edit something out of Nora’s comment, which she protested. But editors can never be popular. The alternative is not screening and editing comments, but that is the direct path to Web hell.]
Can a Cuban really be Orthodox? Where I grew up (Long Island), there were quite a few Greek, Ukranian and Russian Orthodox. While the flock’s parents were old world and their children easily fell away into American temptations, the Orthodox clergy always impressed me by their “ancientness.”
They seemed to have stepped out of Middle-earth, with their minds on sunken continents and ruined cities.
Unlike the faggoty apostate mainline Protestant pastors and the Nice guy Catholic priests.
They were the sons of those who contested for the lands of the European Southeast against the hordes that would extinguish the Light of the World. Their struggle, even if it is a long defeat, was etched on their faces. [LA replies: That’s more or less my image of them too, which is why I was surprised by the garbage liberalism coming from Obregon.]
So Mr. Cuban-Ortho is a damn liberal, like most leaders today.
Mark H. writes:
I stumbled across your post regarding an Orthodox priest endorsing the GZ Mosque. Having grown up in an Orthodox parish (Carpatho-Rusyn) here in the US, I thought I might send you a note. As a whole, the Church is very conservative on issues pertaining directly to Christian dogma but when it comes to more current political issues, it can be hit or miss. In my experience, I have never heard an Orthodox priest instruct the parishioners on how to vote or to bring up contemporary politics in any way during a sermon (and I was an altar boy for 15 years).
Posted by Lawrence Auster at September 13, 2010 06:04 PM | Send
That said there are a couple of reasons why Orthodox Christians are often Democrats and the Orthodox Church prone to bouts of liberalism. First, here in America most Orthodox Christians were originally working class immigrants—think of hunky steelworkers, miners, etc. These people were not liberals, but they were definitely going to be Democrats given turn of the century working conditions and politics. To this day, the Orthodox parishes in many parts of America are made up mostly of the elderly; people whose parents were immigrants and whose husbands were millworkers. Their politics are frozen in the Roosevelt-Truman-Kennedy era and they probably vote Democrat out of habit.
At the international level, one of the posters was accurate to say that there is a concern for Orthodox Christians living in the Middle East that influences the Church’s view of US foreign policy. But the Orthodox Church has also been frustratingly active in the World Council of Churches, which is hopelessly tainted with left-wing political agendas. The Orthodox have also developed some odd ties to the Lutheran Church, dating back to the Reformation when Luther supposedly used Orthodox theological arguments against the Catholic Church. Sadly, the Orthodox have a long-standing grudge against the Catholics dating back (I’m not making this up) to the 4th Crusade sacking of Constantinople. Nobody holds a grudge like the Orthodox! But anyway, I think the Orthodox Church—particularly the international leadership—have established some off and on again ecumenical ties to and been corrupted by some of the more liberal christian faiths and periodically this shows up with priests like the one you encountered.
One last note: I’d guess “liberal” priests are fairly uncommon in the Orthodox faith. But there is no Orthodox version of the Vatican and most Orthodox churches are structured as autonomous national churches and so there is more leeway for an individual priest to develop his own political agenda as there is not always a clear reservation established from which clergy should not stray. This is particularly true for issues of foreign policy, but in my experience there is not a lot of political sympathy for things Islam. The Church has too much history on the front lines for this sort of thing to be a mainstream view within the Orthodox clergy.
Sorry for the long post. Living in America, I don’t get to talk about Orthodox stuff that often. Hope some of this was helpful.