Thousands of Muslim illegals being deported
Headline in Washington Post:
Immigrants Fear Deportation After RegistrationThe numbers comparatively are a drop in the bucket, but at the present, grim moment in our national existence (if, after Grutter, we still have a national existence), I’ll take good news wherever I can find it.
Posted by Lawrence Auster at July 28, 2003 02:10 AM | Send
Any expulsions should be humane and carried out with complete respect for human dignity (authorities must be especially careful of this, of course, where families are concerned, as opposed to private individuals living here alone) and in full deference to all appropriate due process. Property of whatever sort must be absolutely respected and, if necessary, compensated.
Whatever human hardships may, despite all that, be brought about by the taking of reasonable steps to undo excessive inappropriate and incompatible immigration are wholly the fault of those forces which colluded to bring about the immigration disaster in the first place, and the fault of absolutely no one else.
All blame for any human suffering that results from reversing the wrongness which the other side set in motion deliberately over a period of decades is laid entirely at the other side’s feet and at no one else’s.
A big part of the other side consists of the same mercantile interests — nowadays taking the form of corporate interests (who are looking for workers willing to work for slave wages) — which created Negro slavery and pushed it down everyone’s throats for centuries. They created misery then, and visibly still haven’t learned their lesson because they’re creating it now and for the same motives: pure greed.
At their feet — AT THEIRS AND NO ONE ELSE’S — is where the blame lies for any human suffering that results from undoing the wickedness they’ve so shamefully wrought.Posted by: Unadorned on July 28, 2003 8:48 PM
In my final sentence above, I meant to say of course that blame lies at *the other side’s* feet, not just at the feet of corporations. The other side consists largely of greedy corporate interests but those are only ONE of the slimy, unclean tentacles currently strangling us, and all we’ve ever loved, to death. My point is that no one on our side who supports reasonable expulsions humanely carried out need feel guilty or ashamed, because all blame for this whole mess we find ourselves in, and for whatever (humane-though-unpleasant) measures may unfortunately turn out to be necessary to undo it, lies elsewhere.
Our side’s hands are clean in this business.Posted by: Unadorned on July 28, 2003 9:06 PM
I think Unadorned’s solicitude for illegal immigrants is excessive. Admittedly there are degrees of illegality. Someone who sneaked into the country in the first instance, for example, is the worst offender and should be deported. Due process in such circumstances would be restricted to a fair adjudication of the illegality of the entry. Someone who entered legally and overstayed his green card has committed a lesser offense and should have due process with respect to the applicable administrative remedies.
The concerns for dignity and due process and compensation for property that Unadorned raises are more appropriately directed towards legal immigrants who would be deported as a result of changes in our immigration policies. In those cases, I would fully share Unadorned’s concerns.
I also disagree with the proposition that mercantile interests are largely responsible for our excessive and destructive immigration. The population as a whole is imbued with the idea that Americans have no right to keep out anyone who wants to come here to better his lot, and with the corollary idea that Americans have no legitimate interest in their future as a people.
I don’t think Mr. Carpenter’s dismissal of big business’ role in our immigration policies is entirely accurate. Groups like the Ford Foundation pour millions into perpetuating this disaster. I think it’s all interrelated.
The main reason I take issue here is because polling consistently shows that a sizeable majority of Americans want immigration curtailed, or at least seriously reformed. The political elite ignore the people on this, and that must be largely due to who’s providing their funding. Follow the money.Posted by: Joel on July 29, 2003 3:16 PM
Joel may be right, but the people have not exerted enough pressure on politicians to signficantly raise the cost of ignoring their wishes on these issues. Whatever a sizable majority may say in polls, they are not electing many immigration reform candidates. I suspect the people as a whole are inhibited by the prejudices I described.Posted by: Bill Carpenter on July 29, 2003 3:38 PM
I fully agree with your assessment of the other side of the equation. The problem I see is that the system itself doesn’t really allow this kind of choice, and is insulated from the kind of pressure we would bring to bear.
In the year 2000, which of the candidates supported immigration reform? How many such candidates are there in any race? The Rep. Tancredo’s are few and far between, and are on the outs with their party and peers over this issue.
If a politician sees that his only opponents offer no substantive difference on the issue, then what kind of pressure can really be placed on them?
Another example of this problem is our membership in the U.N. Last poll I saw showed that a majority of Americans wanted out. But a recent vote in the House for this, (introduced by Rep. Ron Paul I believe,) received hardly any votes at all. So who do we vote for that has a chance of winning?
Big money is a major cause of this, the collusion of big business and mass media with a political agenda that is aiming for a one world government, for which purpose American cultural identity, as well as national sovereignty in general, must be reduced to nothing.Posted by: Joel on July 29, 2003 4:19 PM
If demonstrations mean anything anymore for other than left-wing causes, the Million American March scheduled for Sept 6, 2004 might be interesting. The web site for this isn’t responding at the moment, but it’s www.millionamericanmarch.com.
WorldNetDaily mentioned this rally along with another event this coming September 10-11 in D.C. sponsored by the Federation for American Immigration Reform: http://www.fairus.org/html/rememberance.html
The WND article is at: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33744
I was encouraged to see at least WND giving some publicity to the ‘Million’ march. As it comes during an election year let’s hope it draws substantial attendence, enough to generate some media attention.
Events like this can make a difference in public awareness and perception of a given issue. Not to overestimate the chances, but in this case it may be the best tool at our disposal.Posted by: Joel on July 29, 2003 8:13 PM
Prof. David Yeagley has an interesting article up over at Vdare.com which discusses aspects of this general issue (let’s just say Prof. Yeagley comes down on the side of those who are not squeamish about deporting people when that is in the national interest, and I fully agree with him on this):
Maybe we could all meet one another at this march.Posted by: P Murgos on July 30, 2003 8:51 PM
That would be wonderful! :-)Posted by: Joel on July 30, 2003 11:27 PM
We could have a traditionalist conservatives’ contingent.Posted by: Lawrence Auster on July 31, 2003 1:01 AM
“Maybe we could all meet one another at this march.”
Not so fast. I’m reminded of the West African ruler (I think it was the fellow in Togo) who responded to the wave of “democratic reform” in the early 1990s by announcing a conclave for everyone opposed to his rule. They were to meet and construct a new constitution/government. When they did meet, of course, the ruling president-for-life realized he finally had all his opponents in one place under his thumb and arrested them all. Gotcha! The same thing, however, could never occur in Mexamerica, could it?Posted by: Paul on July 31, 2003 10:48 AM
i always thought about why americans are goiing back to the same habit. It’s slavery the way of treating black and we slaved for centuries. we are now agin same thing happing to human beings living in america illegaly. i am not taling about muslims only iam proving the fact that others doesnt prove. why we have to pay for the mistake that they said Bin ladin did, why dont we go after hime but we go after the poor people that is trying to servive here, and try to make it into better life. i am one of them i see teenagers thinking about cars, girlfriends, having fun, playing play station, and me having sitting down thinking about my paper and what i need to do to work and have my rights like others. i am only 17 years old, i want every one to know that 5.00 in the morning they had came to our house and took me to thr immigratoion like a slave and they asked me all typed of question..so on.i dont want to get into details but i want to let everyone that i have asked for volunteer departure and i really dont want to leave from miami because i like it and i will fight all my rights for me to saty here because i dont think that having me loosing my future and have some one decide it fo r me other then me putting my plans togather….please if someone could help me figure out what i got to do for me to saty contact me to my email address (firstname.lastname@example.org) i think we all live on earth so our land is one but having humans decide where me or you to live isnt righ. so lets us built one united hand and change our dreams to a better because sitting in frear everyday isnt right for us because we all live once not twice and i think that i should be enjoying my 17th age because i havent got good sleep for years and i hav been searching for solution. i hope a miracle come to me and all of us that is suffering like me.
William, you are right that what is going on with US immigration policy and lack of enforcement thereof is nothing more than the 21st century form of slavery. However, there are some significant differences in the forms of slavery Americans fought and died to abolish and this new form slavery has taken.
The slave masters of the 21st century are not found on the plantation. They are found in the board rooms and management offices where you and your ilk work. (Please, do tell us who they are so they can be rooted out and put in jail for their felonious crimes. Snitch them out. The American justice system will work with you. Juries will see to it. You might not have an American job when it is over, but you might have a pocket full of Korporate Amerika dollars to take back with you to where ever you are from.)
American citizens are not going to be able to get any control over the slave masters until their funding to pay for corrupt politicians is eliminated. Slavery will not be abolished until the source of slaves is removed. You and the 6 billion illegal aliens standing in line behind you are dragging the power of American citizens down to your level; cannon fodder.
Immigration, especially illegal immigration, is undermining America’s ability to abolish slavery. As long as people like you are allowed to vote with your feet for slavery, it will be difficult if not impossible for Americans to abolish it. And you did vote for it. You stuck your paw in the air and volunteered slavery.
Americans can cast their votes at the ballot box all they want, and write all the laws they want. But in terms of weight, a vote with the feet always counts for more. 270 million Americans are against illegal immigration, yet more than 12 million illegal aliens are tolerated to reside in America. The vote of an illegal alien with his feet is worth at least 23 American votes at the ballot box.
As for you wanting a better life, I think America ought to be doing much more to enable you to obtain a better life for yourself. In your own country. I think a good enhancement to immigration policy would be to put illegal aliens through training at Camp of the Americas, arm them, and then deport them. All these rights you keep bleating about should be available to you in your own country. They are. All you have to do is take them. Americans did that a long time ago. It was remarked in history as the American Revolution.
The only way this menace posed to America through immigration will be resolved is through a civil war. And I think that is brewing. Third world countries just think they know how to throw a revolution. Wait until they see the 21st century American version of the Boston Tea Party. Only this time the commodity isn’t tea.
“the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”
Hanged in effigy at Brazoria for wanting peace with Mexico, these “tories” were: Ira Lewis (1800-1867), Thomas Jefferson Chambers (1802-1865) and Samuel May Williams (1795-1858).Posted by: Angry American on May 22, 2004 9:48 AM